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In transcribing the tape of the interview, there were words that were muffled or unclear. These are represented by a series of three asterisks (***).

E.B. When I got into the ghost thing, there was a young lady that was starting to write, her name is Laurie *** the other person was, that the two of us was to go with her around to some places that she had checked out *** one of the places we went to was the old, old library where the old man and the dog used to at night go around and check *** the violin and he would *** got to where the people in the library would hear him at night *** late at night *** and the music *** he had been caretaker for years *** were asking us to pick up why we felt that he was still there. What I picked up at the time was that I felt he was there protecting the books because he had been there so long that that was still part of his life. And there were some manuscripts that were real valuable *** understand at that time, a little before that they had tried and take a movie there but nothing showed up.

J.S. Where is this?

At the old library behind, downtown.

The library building close to the coliseum?

Downtown somewhere where the new library is in back. This is the library that we're talking about [showing me a photograph] and this is supposedly the image of the old man *** that is what we call ectoplasm. When you're going to--

That's where the idea of the sheet came from?

Yeah. The ectoplasm, if there is enough energy in the room and you're going to be sitting for just bringing in the spirit it will form. And it will take the shape of the person or persons that we're let's say interested in *** Show you something here. This is *** The images there.

Yeah it looks like a TV screen sort of a thing.

This lady and this man are husband and wife. This man is her husband *** the faint image up here is the brother of this one. There's a small child's face in here. If you kind of look like this a little bit you can see a very fat baby's face in here. Here you see *** The original negative of that picture was never found. This picture right now is about 10 years old. It's a picture of a picture and the girl that brought it in to me, these two people here, there's some living people that look like these and so she thought maybe they were just on there and I said no they were in spirit.

How did it come about that she had that many spirits with her at one time?

Evidently she may have been holding very close, been very close to her and they were able to put themselves on to the negative. A lot of times that will come on after the picture is taken too. But I feel like these came on when the picture was taken. They did not show her the picture because they thought it might freak. So she doesn't know anything about the picture.

They knew who the people were?

Yeah, the girl knew who the people were. This is a spirit dog. And of course I have the big one up there. A friend of mine enlarged it for me. That was taken with a Polaroid. I didn't even see it. I took the picture because I was only taking a picture of the flowers when he appeared. This is healing energy. There's a gentleman that was sitting in the center of that. And that was the energy after he got through doing some healings. That was the energy he had around him.

Is that Kirlian or it's just a common photograph?

No, it's just again the Polaroid. This one, we talk about our 7 bodies. Lady standing back here and her body's coming out.

I didn't see it. That just appeared?

That's Kirlian photography there because I was in Canada at a fair up there with some friends. The dark side on here was I had a stiff neck at the time and so that was what was causing that. This was when I was in Egypt. I was facing the sun when I took the picture visualizing the capstone coming down. And so this was the capstone coming down on top of the pyramid.

Well these are lights that were going on the wall but this was the energy that was still around the bottom of the altar down on Abussam Bell. This is one of the temples that was moved back from the river. This was the energy around the door of that entrance. This was when I was in the Yucatan and I was taking a picture of the steps, the roof, how steep they were. And I didn't see that but this was the energy that came across when I took it. That was when we were waiting for the van to pick us up. That is all the energy, this is all energy within the ground itself. This is an energy here and this is another energy here. I saw the rainbow and I took it. And this was down at Uxmal down the Yucatan and it's like if you look it looks like a Guru sitting there with the energy coming. This there was a lady back here. This lady here in the white hair this was up there at Starlight Farms and I was channeling a space energy. Well she took this picture *** This is her husband and this was taken in front of their home, but you see *** the energy coming out. This was down in Palenque and it's by the foliated cross. I have the picture, the clear picture in my office *** There was so much energy on that picture so I took a picture of *** playing a lot of times with incense and there's a face *** the clinging what is there and forming itself *** Sinai *** Red Sea *** the head of the Christ with the thorns *** bit of *** shows *** a little bit stronger. This one the energy *** This was when I was at Machu Pichu. He brought me a clear picture and he brought me this one. And I gave him back the clear picture and I kept that one. He probably thought I was crazy when I did. So I guess in a way the energies that we work with in a sense, if you want to call them ghostly, I guess a lot of people *** mainly those that we work with like Laura and this other lady and I, we went into a home where these people were having some problems. It was way out on the north, northeast side of town, and we went out there and we were working out there and it was like, they were on like Indian ground. You could feel the energies *** things were happening out there and they didn't understand what it was. It's like a lot of times the possession, people feel, especially people that go into spirit that are owning something that they feel is still *** not clear where they're at so they stay sort of earthbound. And when they're earthbound *** that what we found *** The person that ***

The first place was when we went in there we sat for about 15 or 20 minutes, and finally Laura had never seen anyone go into trance and I had gone into trance. The energy started talking to me to let, to know who he was and why he was there. And it was like he had been killed just outside of that building there somewhere along, but it was during the time of when they were bringing in slaves from various countries. And it wasn't a black man. He was from like South America, the South American area, and he had come in and he had had, evidently had had some money on him that was given to him for working and he had been killed. But she said all of a sudden that she saw this great big red ball just come and enter into me and that's when he started to talk. She said that was the first time she had ever seen anything like that. It was interesting 'cause it was like he had been on this ship, on this ancient kind of like pirate-looking ship, it's when he was brought over, and that he had come in and had been in the area for a while doing some work and got in with a group who were fighting and he got killed and what money he had was taken from him. He evidently had been buried in that area also. I mean it was like they had just buried him there, or had left him there. So he was still hanging in that particular area there until we were able to release him. You see I do, in a way I do a lot of rescue work *** rescue work is if I have a very strong group of people and I can tell them that maybe there's going to be someone come in tonight or today whatever, that start talking to them. And that they won't hurt you or anything but just let them talk and you talk back and tell them where they're out and why you're there and so forth. Because they're earthbound, they don't know and they need help to go to the tunnel and to the light. And so I will allow some of these characters, so to speak, to use me as an instrument to come in. And I had a group, when I first started out I had a group of people, about 25 in a room, and I said I don't know if someone's coming in tonight but I don't know who. And when I said that I said but talk to them. Don't be afraid, just talk to them. Well when he came in, he came in with all kinds of language and the whole group got scared excepting about three of them. And those three started to talk to me, to talk to the energy that was there. And he didn't want to leave. He said that he wanted to stay. They said well your folks are all waiting for you to come over and that, and I said look around and you'll see your mother and your sisters and brothers and father there waiting for you. And they finally talked him into looking around and when he did look around then he saw them, he started to go, they started calling him to the light, and they got him into the light. Well find out he was during the time of Al Capone. He was one of the Purple Gang from Detroit. And he was very mad and upset because one of his, what he thought was a friend had shot him and he couldn't understand why he had done that.

Where were you when this happened?

This had happened up in Detroit, all of this with him up in Detroit. And he couldn't understand why the friend shot him, but it was like he had been in limbo all this time. Course you know that was, that era was way back. And when they finally did get it to talk to him and got him calmed down and look at his family and they got him to go towards the light. So then in a couple of weeks he came back and said thank you for helping me that he had found his way and could he come again. She said sure he could come again. Well this is a lot of the work that I have been doing is the rescue work in that sense of those that are earthbound and do want to, and we feel want to go on *** So that again is I guess you call it ghosts.

Could you explain to me—if we have seven or nine etheric bodies, is it a certain layer of the body that remains behind?

A lot of times it's the soul that remains behind. It depends upon, it's more or less the area in which that person left the earth plane. Some of them that believe in religion and they have no, nothing that they think they're going to look forward to, they a lot of times, they are earthbound as people that go out suddenly in an accident of some sort, like an airplane or car or whatever, they go out in a gunshot, but they go out real suddenly and they look down and well there's my body but where am I? I should be there. And they don't know that they've left the body, that that's just the physical form down there. And so it's a lot of these people like that that in-between world we call it.

Can the ghost have a presence with no ectoplasm or without anything that would allow him to be seen?

Yeah, he can. And it can be by the sense or his sensing. He can have a vibration. There can still be a vibration of the person there. But a lot of times they will try to manifest a form so that it can be seen. Especially if there's a, again say a large group of people that can pull a lot of energy in, we can bring that in in that ectoplasmic state.

OK, so it's like you're lending energy to the form to—

Yes. And but it's like again they may be just strong enough in that in-between world where they can manifest themselves so that people can see them in order to get help, that they may want to get out of that area but don't know how.

We can help them this way. Like if we know of a person that's gone out suddenly and we feel that they may not have made the crossing, totally made the crossing. There's a very good book out called The Doctor Goes To Heaven. It explains when a person goes across what they go through and what areas and what realms they can go into. Like this doctor was very intelligent so when he went, when he was killed in a airplane crash he was taken to the other side and he was taken to let's say the seventh realm, or the fifth or sixth rather, and he was shown a lot of things up here. And he studied up here for a little while and then they brought him back down, each step down till he come to where the entrance of going across, like a clinic, what he called it a clinic, and in that clinic as a soul comes over to the other side they are looked at, they are judged, they are, to see where they need to go and how long they need to stay in a certain area. It's real interesting. It was hard to put the book down because, knowing what I know, it just confirmed my feelings and my ideas that much more. And he was also brought to the what I call Never Never Land so to speak. He was also taken down to the lower level and seen, he said friends of his, friends, and doctors that all they thought of was money, doctors that had drank, doctors that had been on drugs. They were friends of his he saw down there in that level of grounding. And you know he kind of said what are you doing here. And it was like they didn't want to give up. They wanted to keep what they had. They didn't want to release it. So they had to stay there. But you can choose if you want, you can choose to lift yourself out of that, out of the rubble, and come up if you want. And that's where we can help them if they choose to leave that. But like he said many of his friends didn't want to leave it. They wanted to stay there. They wanted to hang on to their money. They wanted to hang on to whatever they had there.

Have you ever had somebody ask you to help them with a ghost or spirit energy that was really difficult for you or frightening?

Yeah. I've had people ask me to help them in this way because in a sense they feel like they're possessed. And a lot of times we do have to work with the person and get them to recognize that it's not, they are not possessed, it's just that they are in one way have been sort of wanting, they've been leaning on that also. In other words, it's like that ghost or that person over here kind of tells them let's do this today or let's do that today and we're going to do something else. And so they're depending on that. But yet it frightens them sometimes, and when it gets to that point where it really frightens them, then they begin to ask for help. When they get to doing some things maybe they didn't realize they're doing it. Then they start saying well I feel like I'm possessed, I need help. So that's when we can work with them then. And as along as they're willing to accept the help and let us work with them then we can—

Do you think possession is actually that they're hearing something outside themselves and they think it's something that has come in?

Yeah. I say these people that are in the insane asylums are not always insane. They are very high strung individuals. They are people that are very open.

So in the case of, say, autism, where people physically can't be touched or have such tremendous sensitivity, has the soul made a big mistake or was it deliberately coming in saying I'm going to come in messed up so this family has an opportunity to do something?

Well a lot of times, let's say we'll go back into past lives, that isn't always the case, but a lot of times what you're doing today you may have done in other lifetimes, but you have not recognized that you needed to do something about it so it sort of carries over into the next lifetime. What we're doing a lot of now is looking at what we can do to stop this so that we don't have to do it again. A lot of it now you're finding that a lot of us are beginning to work with bringing the child up. And when we say bringing the child up that you carry in here—something maybe happened during your mother's carrying you and you picked it up. You're holding it inside and you're not wanting to recognize it or you haven't recognized it as being a part of the problem, too, that you're having today. It's things that—a lot of times we don't want to recognize, we don't want to understand. We want to just put the big wall here and forget it. We can't do that because we can't go ahead with whatever we want to do. Something always pushes us back. Well we have to go back and we have to look. And as I tell a lot of my people when they come into me and talk to me about it, I said have you got a doll or a toy that you like very well, even though they're like me, they're my age or your age. I say take that doll or that toy and look at it as being you. When you look at it as being you, you can talk to it. You can say to it, What can we do to help ourselves? What do we need to look at to help ourselves? How can we break this block that seems to be hindering us? And the little doll or the toy will talk back to you. Well maybe we need to do this or maybe we need to do that or maybe we need to do something else. Maybe we need to go see somebody who can help us. Until you can bring that child up here and recognize what is there and then begin to work with it and change it. And this is the same way when people want to go back into past lives, and they recognize something there that they're doing today, they realize that they've got to change maybe their attitude, maybe their outlook on life—anything to break that hold that seems to have come along maybe two or three times. And until they can look at it and face and see it and say I don't want it any more, then they will become clear of whatever it is. And when I was in Egypt we helped a gentleman in the one temple there in Abu Symbel. We walked in there and we were listening to the guide talking about something in there and all of the sudden I looked over and this fellow was totally gone. And a friend of mine was standing there trying to bring him back. And I went over and I said, Do you want some help there? He said, Yes I do. And so I started helping working with him and bringing, pulling up and pulling out what I could. And we finally got him to breathe from down here. And I said, Now take a deep breath as deep as you can get it. I said, We'll start pulling it out. And I said, You'll hold it in your mouth, and as I call it now the garbage bag—you'll hold it there. And I counted to five, and I said, Now start blowing it out. Well once we got him to doing that well he came back, and when he came back he said, You know— he says, I didn't want to come back, I was home, I wanted to stay there. And this was way on the other side of the temple evidently where he had been either buried or had been killed over in that area of the temple. But going into that it took him back there to that period of time and it was like that's where he was going to stay and they were keeping him there. But we didn't want that to happen so we had to bring him back. We worked about an hour with him before we really got him back to himself, and then he was so weak after that it was hard for him to walk. But I learned that over there to do that. I work a great deal with that now. Too, is having them in the workshop, bring it up, and you also balance the chakras as you do it. Sometimes I'll just say you need to do it just three times, and then there are other times it needs to be done more before they could feel the relief and feeling it coming out. But that's one way of breaking some of the blockages too that we have inside. The idea of hanging on to it, it's an old idea that we've hung onto for so many years that we can't do anything about it so we just let it be there. But now we're beginning to realize that we have to do something with it, we have to bring it out, we have to look at it, we have to recognize it in order to be ourselves and be what we want to be.

A lot of people are beginning to look that way now and to understand. Your psychiatrists and your psychologists, those that are in the metaphysical field are realizing it and we're using that a lot now too, the child within.

That's an old concept that people have worked with in so many different ways.

It's an old concept but they haven't really brought it out in allowing the person to—we really have to do it on the physical where they try to do it telling the person what they have to do. And when you tell a person what they have to do, you don't always get it out. The person has to do it themselves. And that's what I do. If I do any regressions, I don't tell them where they've been or anything. I get them to go and look at where they've been, look at who they are, what their names were, what they died of, and what their family and what they did during that period of time of life. The country and all of that that they may have been in.

Do you feel like this part of your ministry is, like the ghost thing, is what people are interested in at Halloween, but that's a very small part of what you're doing?

Yep. That's a very small part of what I'm doing, yeah. It's just like well each time when it comes to this time of the year that comes up and I think the picture Ghost brought a lot of this along because a lot of what she went through is mainly what we go through too in a sense.

Do you have any rituals you go through if you are, say, going to rid a property of a ghost? Is there anything in particular that you prepare?

No.

So it's a matter of trying to communicate with the spirit?

It's communicating with the spirit. It's doing a prayer and doing a healing, working with it, talking to the individual that I'm working with, what it's all about and what it's like. Mainly going into the area in which the ghost might be and feeling it and sensing it and start working in a way with it, of putting out prayers, putting out positive thinking, and explaining to the individual or individuals that they need to go on, that there is something better for them. Talking to them and letting them know that they can go to a better place. I did her— oh about three months ago I had a girl call me and she said that a friend of hers they had bought a home and they tore it down and were rebuilding and they felt like there were still some ghosts there. But when I went there, it was a Jewish couple and I guess they had told everybody, all their friends, what was going to happen because there was about 25 Jewish people, children and all. And I found out a woman had been murdered there and the husband had committed suicide and the area in which they were found. And so when the house was tore down, the old house was tore down, they were still more or less around. So they started to build. Well the contractor, a young man, said there's something here. He could feel it. He was very sensitive. He could feel the energies there. So they thought well they were going to try to find somebody and they were evidently going to a very good friend of mine who's a chiropractor and the chiropractor suggested they call me. And so I went over there, but a friend of mine came in with, he had come in to show me two crystal wands. I said to him, I said, John would you mind if I took this one wand with me, the crystal wand. And he said no you can take them both. Well one had the crystal but he had three feathers in it and I said no I didn't want to take that because I was afraid of the feathers being broken or falling. And so he let me have the other one. And so when I took that with me that was about the only time that I took something with me. And I kind of went around with the crystal and I could feel the energy, where it was. We were in the middle of what would be their living room, which it happened just off to the side of that. So I had them all standing around in a circle, and when we hold hands it's always our left up and our right hand down because the energy comes in this way and goes out this way. So holding this way you're sending energy from this hand through you to the next person and then they take with their left hand and they're sending it out around to the other people. So I have them all holding hands. And then I said a prayer, and I was talking to the energies that they needed to leave, that there was nothing there for them anymore, to go on. And then after we got all through, they all felt better, they all felt it so they didn't feel the energy any more even being what they were. So then I went around to each one of the individuals with the wand and kind of cleared each person with the wand of what might have been remains that would have been there. Of course they felt the energy of the wand going through them, which was interesting. And several of them said, You got cards? So they said some day they were going to come. And I think several of them have come to our psychic fairs every once in a while. But it's been an interesting experience in a sense just releasing. I haven't heard from them, so evidently it's OK 'cause I haven't heard anything more from them that they still have it. The little girl that had called and asked me first, we went out to her home because she felt like her home had something in it. Well her home, it's over an old Indian out in the bayou area, just out in Spring Branch, up in that area, and it was like hers was over an old Indian burial ground. And we could feel the energy of the Indians there. And of course we ran around, this friend of mine and I went around the yard, and we could feel them in the yard. You know there was a certain spot that we felt it by some trees. So we stood there and did a kind of meditation there to release what that was. I just got back from New Mexico about a month ago and was in Taos and went up to the cliff dwellings. And while I was up there, I didn't want to go into the cliffs. I went to the edge and I said no I don't need to go into the cliffs. But I did stay on the top, and when we got out of the car the first words out of my mouth was this is B.C., which is Before Christ. So that's when I had went over to the edge and I didn't feel I wanted to go down there at all. But I went over off to the right hand side of where we were. And it was like a stub of a tree there, like it had, it's this way and four pieces out like that. And it was like I needed to stand there. And when I did I stood there and I went into meditation.

*** In India, I felt at home in India. I have a strong affinity for Egypt. You've been there at the same time I have.

That one experience I thought was real interesting just disappeared from me. I've had so many it's really hard to think about the different ones that I've had. In working with the spirit especially.

When we see somebody on the street and say gee I know that person, and yet we don't, but yet we do. The many areas of, when I was growing up I didn't have any of this knowledge whatsoever until I met my husband. And I met him and got into the spiritualist faith and that's when it started. When he passed it was funny because he knew when he was going to go and he had called our foster son to—he said would you do a service. He said yes Dad, whose? And he said mine. And he says but don't tell mother. So Rouen never told me till after the funeral. Rouen was there standing ready to talk. He had his Bible, he had Gibran, and he had this minister's manual. As he was standing there he started to say something and he stopped. So when he got all through he says, you know, he says afterwards, he says you know it's the strangest feeling to stand there and start saying something and have somebody touch you on the shoulder and say I said a simple service. That was him! And we were going along in the limousine and I wanted to laugh because I could hear him talking to me. And he says well honey you got to follow me after all. But for two weeks after that in my bedroom, the bathroom over the mirror over the sink was a light and he would blink it two times going to the bathroom and when I'd come out of the bathroom he would blink it three times again—two weeks afterwards. And I know when he's around. I mean because something will come up and I'll say something and I know it's him with a smart aleck remark. He always comes out with something.